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IVSC Safety Trial
Nemesis
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:53:47 AM

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RL Schafferr wrote:
John, they are talking about saturation levels of 95% . Same thing u read on your oxymeter. Mine is 97/98% most time. U would make up the value u read on ithe meter by supplementing with pure oxygen.


I actually doubt that, as far as I know oxymeters works by a ray of light that penetrates the tissue in a finger and records the amount of rays that are reflected by hemoglobin ando oxyhemoglobin, respectively.

This means that any oxygen which is dissolved directly in blood plasma won't be recorded at all.

But a human which has been spcifically desanguinated with regards to red blood cells and whose oximeter is reading 0% would still be reasonably well oxygenated in 3 atm overpressure of pure oxygen (provided that he is replenished with fluid to compensate for the lost blood volume).


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
De Laval
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:59:43 AM
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Louis.
Have you ever thought about a small oxygen bottle to ask your doctor.
It is here in the Netherlands covered by insurance and give the night a little bit of oxygen through a nasal tube to your wife.
This could also raise here oxygen level up .
In the Netherlands is frequently used for ALS patients who are short of oxygen at night.


Jan
RL Schafferr
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:10:32 PM

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Nemesis wrote:


I actually doubt that, as far as I know oxymeters works by a ray of light that penetrates the tissue in a finger and records the amount of rays that are reflected by hemoglobin ando oxyhemoglobin, respectively.

This means that any oxygen which is dissolved directly in blood plasma won't be recorded at all.

But a human which has been spcifically desanguinated with regards to red blood cells and whose oximeter is reading 0% would still be reasonably well oxygenated in 3 atm overpressure of pure oxygen (provided that he is replenished with fluid to compensate for the lost blood volume).
Nem, are u sure? I believe they are talking about 02 saturation in the blood, which my oxygen meter ( clip on ) detects. I know John is talking about 02 versus oxygen levels which if they are to low, is bad news. . I'll bow out . I may be off topic.
Nemesis
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:35:54 PM

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I'm resonably sure, especially after having to verify my view with Wikipedia.

Wikipedia wrote:

Pulse oximetry is a particularly convenient noninvasive measurement method. Typically it utilises a pair of small light-emitting diodes (LEDs) facing a photodiode through a translucent part of the patient's body, usually a fingertip or an earlobe. One LED is red, with wavelength of 660 nm, and the other is infrared, 905, 910, or 940 nm. Absorption at these wavelengths differs significantly between oxyhemoglobin and its deoxygenated form; therefore, the oxy/deoxyhemoglobin ratio can be calculated from the ratio of the absorption of the red and infrared light.



The standard forms of oxymeters used by patients won't detect oxygen directly dissolved in blood.


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
Nemesis
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 2:02:05 PM

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Olly, considering your professional background in deep sea diving, I can't possibly think of anyone better suited to make a more detailed specification of the devices (and suppliers) required to construct a DIY ambulatory hyperbaric oxygen treatment device (AHBO).

Even I can start by listing the basic specification:

A) a flask of oxygen suitable for human consumption.

B) a tight fitting breathing mask similar to those used in deep sea diving.

C) a manometer and a regulator capable of providing 02 at 2-3 atm pressure to the mask.


How difficult can it be? I mean, as soon as we have the identified the appropriate gear, we can ask Ron to be sponsor and our first human guinea pig for testing AHBO + OSC for the treatment of ALS. [Angle_Smilies]


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
ichisan
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:35:10 PM
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Nem, here is something I found recently. It's very cheap ($185) but I don't yet know if it's what we are looking for. It is targeted to the military for wound healing on the battlefield but it might work for PALS. I like it because my wife suffers from claustrophobia and a cheap see-through chamber will probably work for her.

Hyperbaric Treatment on the Cheap



Louis
DeeBee
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:51:49 PM

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Hello Louis

Claustrophobia is a terrible sensation but you can get modern 'therapies' that can get rid of it......if the poly tent is no good.

D.
Nemesis
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:52:09 PM

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Numobag, huh? Well I guess that it is a start and reasonably cheap too, but the pressure gauge is a bit rough judging from the video clip.


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
ichisan
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:08:37 PM
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Nemesis wrote:

Numobag, huh? Well I guess that it is a start and reasonably cheap too, but the pressure gauge is a bit rough judging from the video clip.
After studying it, I realize it may not be what we want. It's mainly intended for skin treatments. Unless it can fit around the head and provide oxygen to the lungs under pressure, it won't work for us. However, it may give us ideas on how to make one at home. Someone should make an inflatable see-through bag that surrounds the head and fits snugly around the neck.

Louis
HappyPhysicist
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:27:26 PM
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Just an update on my sterility test. I prepared an IV bag of IVSC using the 5% Keavy SC. I put 4 ml of 5% SC into the IV bag by simply dipping the syringe needle into the bottle, allowing it to even touch the side.

So far there is no sign of contamination. After one more week the test will be definite.


If it is done in secret, it is done in vain.
Olly
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:43:40 PM

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Nem,
breathing pure oxygen through a mask at normal atmospheric pressure will fully saturate the blood and tissues. Doing it in a chamber just speeds the saturation process up..
Think of it this way - air is roughly 79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. So in normal breathing a considerable amount of nitrogen is in the blood plasma, tissues, organs and bones.
When you breath pure Oxygen the nitrogen slowly get replaced with Oxygen and the nitrogen slowly comes out of all the relevant body parts. Not sure how long it takes but it's slow at 1 atmospheric pressure.
Nitrogen gets into the tissues by a number of routes including air swallowing and lung exchange. Blood itself is saturated very quickly but replacing all the other gases in tissues etc takes time.

The bends are when extra gas bubbles out of the blood and tissues when you change depth, coming up, from a dive under pressure.Bit like a bottle of soda po. When the bottle is kept still you don't see anything but just shake it and the extra CO2 bubbles out.

wITH any type of mask you should ensure that your exhaled breath containing CO" is washed out of the masked by the pressure of the incoming Oxygen. That means there will always be Oxygen leaking from around the mask. Be careful, and ensure no naked flame, no grease or oil is on the mask etc.
Warning pure oxygen should be handled with extreme caution. In contact with oil/grease it may exploded or catch fire and if released into confined spaces can cause spontaneous combustion.
When setting up any O2 cylinders have a look at the thread connectors and make sure they are clean from oil, grease dirt etc. When attaching a pressure guage and when first opening the gauge to check pressure do NOT look at the gauge directly but from the side. Gauges have exploded in the past and the glass front will shoot off at extreme speed.
Have a fire extinguisher handy

Remember pure Oxygen killed those three guys in that NASA space capsule prior to launching, due to an electrical fault in pure oxygen causinga flash fire.

Incidently if you uses google look for Bibs masks for DDC's or dive chambers as that is the sort of masks we use. It has a O2 input line and an exhalation line or it can be used without the exhalation line as the mask has one way rubber exhaust valves to get rid of the CO2.

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
Olly
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:52:39 PM

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Coming back to the type of mask I would use i.e bibs mask they are made by Scott Co.

Most have a regulated spring control on the side so as to increase inflow or decrease inflow.
The O2 cylinder will need a regulator with two pressure gauges - one for pressure in the cylinder and one for the pressure to the patient. The pressure to the patient's mask is regulated at the cylinder. Check with any local dive shop and they will give you local procurement advice.


I cannot advice anyone on medical O2 equipment as I haven't used it only diving equipment.

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
Nemesis
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:05:24 AM

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Here is a copy of the old Biomaxx website from 2010 (from the Wayback Machine) with some info (views) on the priciples for infusion and mechansims of action of WF10.

I believe that the alledgely crooked and unethical Mr./Dr. Trogisch (see above) may have been so in the sense that he actually treated people, rather than denied them treatment, but charged accordingly.

That would be in complete analogy with the Borrelia doctors that operating in Germany currently also are doing with patients from all over Europe.

I'm questioning how Dr. Friedrich-Wilhelm Kuehne can be absolutely certain that Mr./Dr. Trogisch hasn't treated a single ALS patient with WF10 or even with the combo of WF10 and oxygen ( see above) solely on the basis that they stopped supplying WF10 to him.

For all we know the alledgedly crooked and unethical Mr./Dr. Trogisch may have procured WF10 by proxy or even mixed it up all by himself, judging form his apparent insights in its composition and his alledged ways of working.



Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
De Laval
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:26:59 AM
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Nemesis.
Quite simply the product WF10 has a approval in Thailand and Dr. Keuhne is a businessman who delivers it under the motto more days more dollars,and perhaps Trogisch buy it for teat cancer how knows .
Or who ever Trogisch treats ALS patients has been nowhere to be found in history.
And what doctors are concerned that Borellia is understandable and there are many Dutch people who seek treatment, because firstly there is absolutely no good laboratories are available in the Dutch university hospitals
They can really do no lyme test, and neurologists also want to know nothing of lyme they say you have ALS and not complain.
I leave now to be sure my blood tests in a laboratory in Germany specifically for Lyme this because in my opinion no good research on lyme tested with me.
I have long sought and found a doctor in Amsterdam specially lyme does and that sends the blood to Germany.
My rehabilitation doctor in doubt whether I have seen the slow ALS progression and the nature in which the paralysis makes her think lyme.
The cost for this blood test should I pay myself.
should this be lyme I can not be treated by that doctor in Amsterdam, but this is done by my rehabilitation physician.
That is the situation in most of Europe hence the German doctors who earn well to the lack of understanding of many hospitals.

Jan
RL Schafferr
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:12:56 AM

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Jan, your blood must be tested within 24 hours from when it's drawn or the Lyme test will be inaccurate. That's a fact most people dont know. I'll say right now u will be positive, and bet a 100. The tests are very inaccurate and 75% of people who take them come back positive. Don't waste your time. Antibiotics will kill your ass. Don't go that route.
De Laval
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:44:00 AM
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Ron.
Thanks for your advice but i will never know if it were lyme or ALS but you could be right and i waste my time.
I read there were several people how get the diagnose ALS but it were lyme.
Her in the Netherlands 4 persons get the wrong diagnose of the idiot neurologist

Jan
SilverFox
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 11:53:15 AM
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Hello Nemesis,


Nemesis wrote:
I'm resonably sure, especially after having to verify my view with Wikipedia.



The standard forms of oxymeters used by patients won't detect oxygen directly dissolved in blood.



While pulse oximetry doesn't measure oxygen directly, it is used as a reasonable approximation of arterial oxygen saturation.

The "qualifiers" are listed in this chapter on critical care usage of the oximeter.

http://www.aacn.org/WD/Practice/Docs/ch_14_PO.pdf

It looks like even though it doesn't measure directly, if you follow the rules you can get a very good approximation of oxygen levels in the blood using oximetry.

Tom
Fafut_1
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:01:05 PM
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this lyme clinic is weird...tested there im positive but heard weird stories about the. either they r right or scum. Louis - u knnow these misdiagnosed and treated????
HappyPhysicist
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 10:24:27 AM
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Well folks I decided to pick up where Louis left off. As I write this I am infusing myself with sodium chlorite.

I added 4 ml of 5% sodium chlorite to a 500 ml IV bag of 0.9% sodium chloride. I will infuse this over about 2 hours. I added the sodium chlorite to the bag last night just to allow the chlorite to sterilize any contamination I might have introduced. I am not worried about this really as my sterility test of a previously prepared bag showed that the bag was sterile.

Yesterday I infused myself with 40 ml of WF10 so I could compare the two. I felt no side effects yesterday, and so far feel no side effects. I am about half way done with the infusion.

I will keep you posted throughout the day.

Cheers,

Ben


If it is done in secret, it is done in vain.
GusGargoyle
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 10:30:30 AM

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De Laval wrote:
Ron.
Thanks for your advice but i will never know if it were lyme or ALS but you could be right and i waste my time.
I read there were several people how get the diagnose ALS but it were lyme.
Her in the Netherlands 4 persons get the wrong diagnose of the idiot neurologist

Jan


Weird huh, it's matter of hitting the infection that causes the largest amount of damage first. In my case it feels like it could be Chlamdyia Pneumonie (Twar). I wonder if Sodium Chlorite can take care of this?

http://borreliawenttofar.wordpress.com
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