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Oral Sodium Chlorite
Olly
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:50:32 AM

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Getting back on topic - maintenace of the aim - OSC and improvements.

When on dosing,on OSC,I have noticed fluctuations in fatigue levels.

Some days fatigue hits me about 1 hour or so after dosing.
Other times no fatigue or very slight.

I wonder if this is due to absorption levels where on some days more is absorbed and on other less chlorite makes it into the blood or plasma?
For me the fatigue is a sign that chlorite has been absorbed as I normally don't get fatigued easily.

Thinking this is so I have varied dosing from taking all the dose in one go to spreading it out into two doses.
For me I now find if I spread it out I get fatigue in about one hour after dosing. If I take it in one big dose I don't?


I also find that taking niacin about 1 hour after dosing seems to lessen any fatigue.
I then follow this up with strong coffee (I'm really a tea drinker) to lessen any metabolites from the B3.

Just my observation but it may be relevant?

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
Olly
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:56:46 AM

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Forgot to add I really suffer from a Yo Yo effect where symptoms deteriorate and then improve again taking about 3/4 and sometimes 5 days after starting dosing to recover, as it were.

Maybe a sign that I should increase dosing amounts in the first couple of days and decrease them after say 2/3 days.
I'm on 1.0mg/kg but maybe I should start of on 1.2mg or 1.5mg and then go back to 1.0mg as a sort of maintenace dosing?

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
De Laval
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:19:23 AM
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Olly.
No fatigue symptoms or headache and i be continue on OSC with the vitamin B5 complex and vitamin D3 and 1000mg taurine
No further improvement but stable
Dose is 2,13 mg/kg at 90 ml mix a day.

Jan
Nemesis
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:29:26 AM

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May fatigue be an effect of a slight methemogobinemia?

If so, the increased level of methemoglobin may perhaps be picked up by a sufficiently sensitive oxymeter and the trend therefore may be possible to discern in relation to a sufficient number of comparative readings during OFF-phases.

Are you able to link the relevtive sense of fatigue to more or less sinnicant changes in recovery?

If I allow myself to wander off topic, it is strange that fatigue also is the perhaps most well known side effect of hyperoxia in HBO-treatment.

In this context it may also be interesting to note that increased fatigue also appears to be a known side effect of higher doses of NADH-supplementation, see e.g. this link.


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
Olly
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:10:51 PM

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Nem,
its difficult to decide but after the fatigue period I do seem to have better recovery.

Yesterday I stopped the niacin and then about an hour after dosing I was really fatigued.

This morning after dosing and waiting about 3/4 of an hour I took the niacin again and haven't felt fatigued today.

I posted about this as it may be possible to use it to work out the efficiency of absorbtion.
This, of course, will be different in each individual and as stated some may not have the fatigue as others do.

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
ichisan
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:24:29 PM
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Why does niacin help with the fatigue?

Louis
RL Schafferr
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:31:03 PM

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Iron replaces or replenishes red blood cells.
sceptic
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:36:06 PM
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De Laval wrote:
Hello all.

I found this article on the site of the ALSLIGA BELGIA post on 2-02-2012 But the article is from the end of last year


http://www.alscenter.org/news/rss_from_the_packard_center/11_11_15.html

Jan


You might find this interesting. IN Mary Reid's recent thread DR6, p2, there is this statement: "Furthermore administration of geranylgeranyl pyrophosphate partially restored cell viability and neurite outgrowth in TDP-43 knockdown cells. "

When yo search on that long name that I will shorten to GGPP yo see it is one of the nastiest compounds you will come across. Not saying you should go out and get this stuff that will likely kill you, but the multiple discussions of TDP-43 within a few hours of each other is interesting.

I think this fact is one of the great things about this forum. It is the only place I know where there is a free-wheeling discussion of just about everything ALS.
Olly
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:27:26 PM

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Louis,
I wish I knew but niacin does help with NAD+ replecement.
I can only report what it does with me.

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
OhGosh
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:39:31 PM
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Olly wrote:

Maybe a sign that I should increase dosing amounts in the first couple of days and decrease them after say 2/3 days.

The dosage for WF10 is somewhat along those lines if I recall correctly what I read before. 0.5mL/Kg on the first day and 0.3mL/Kg on the second and third days of infusion.
Mary Reid
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:45:21 PM
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sceptic wrote:


You might find this interesting. IN Mary Reid's recent thread DR6, p2, there is this statement: "Furthermore administration of geranylgeranyl pyrophosphate partially restored cell viability and neurite outgrowth in TDP-43 knockdown cells. "

When yo search on that long name that I will shorten to GGPP yo see it is one of the nastiest compounds you will come across. Not saying you should go out and get this stuff that will likely kill you, but the multiple discussions of TDP-43 within a few hours of each other is interesting.

I think this fact is one of the great things about this forum. It is the only place I know where there is a free-wheeling discussion of just about everything ALS.


Hi sceptic,

You've mentioned that geranylgeranyl pyrophosphate is a deadly substance. It is naturally produced by the HMGCoA reductase pathway(cholesterol pathway), so consequently statins inhibit its production. As an aside, it reminds me of a line I was following some time back. Measles virus has been found to inhibit HIV replication, so I wondered about the increased incidence of HIV in Africa which coincided with the introduction of the measles eradication campaign. I wrote to Dr Gallo, the person who found that HIV causes AIDS, with this suggestion, and he dismissed my hypothesis. It would indicate to me that not everything in the body is bad for you, although its effect taken on its own may be detrimental.

Interesting that depending on which study you read, you find that statins have been found to either inhibit or promote neurite outgrowth. I guess the take home point is that statins may be contraindicated in those with TDP-43 mutations.

Mary


Olly
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 6:41:49 AM

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Had some more good news today.
An email from another OSC trialist - reporting leg movement gain.

He also reported it was a gain in the first place affected by ALS.

Bad news one other trialist on PLM has seen no results and has just given up taking OSC.

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
Nemesis
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 7:06:02 AM

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Posts: 2,783

The varying results are strange bordering to baffling. Is there a need to review the source of the chlorite solution and the mixing + dosing + supplementation strategies used by non-responders? [think]


Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
ichisan
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 11:47:46 AM
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Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 542
Location: United States
Nemesis wrote:

The varying results are strange bordering to baffling. Is there a need to review the source of the chlorite solution and the mixing + dosing + supplementation strategies used by non-responders? [think]
It is also possible that some ALS patients are misdiagnosed. This is likely since there is no definitive biomarker yet. Progressive muscle weakness is not necessarily ALS, is it?

On another tangent, it is possible that, in some PALS, SC is not reaching the affected tissues due to poor blood circulation. Maybe using a combination of niacin and l-Arginine 1 or 2 hours before ingestion might help. Again, adding O2 therapy to the treatment helps with tissue healing. Thinking out loud.

Louis
Olly
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:08:56 PM

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I tend to agree Nem.
Unfortunately there are so many variable involved including the attitude of participants in OSC testing.
That mmay be a bigger factor where some just follow the starting guidelines and then do not self experiment with dosing amounts, on/off dosing and stopping/starting supplements.

Plus the type of ALS may also be a factor as well as time duration of sysmptoms?

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
sceptic
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 1:08:32 PM
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Posts: 147
Location: United States
Nem's thoughts also apply to the actual NP001 trial The neurologist and head admin always ask me what drugs I am currently taking. I have studiously told them about each drug and supplement, to the point of emailing or asking whether it is OK within the strictures of the trial to take a particular drug etc before I start.,

For a while I was heavy into antioxidants, and they said fine. And thew I stopped them due to reports herein and elsewhere, and they also said fine.

SO shat does all this off and on of the anti oxidants do to the data? I am truly curious about this and do wonder how the supposed interim report will be affected by such intake modifications.
Olly
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 2:51:22 PM

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Most supplements and vitamins have inter-reactions with drugs of some sort or another -good and bad.

Makes you wonder how accurate some of these trials are, if the trialists are taking any thing else?

Into the heart, an air that kills, from yon far country blows.
What are those blue remembered hills, what sphires what farms are those.
That is the land of lost content,I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went and cannot come again
ichisan
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 4:02:25 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 542
Location: United States
sceptic wrote:
For a while I was heavy into antioxidants, and they said fine. And thew I stopped them due to reports herein and elsewhere, and they also said fine.
This clearly shows that they really have no clue as to what NP001/sodium chlorite is all about.
Quote:
SO shat does all this off and on of the anti oxidants do to the data? I am truly curious about this and do wonder how the supposed interim report will be affected by such intake modifications.
Judging from my wife's experience with anti-oxidants I would strongly advise all PALS to stay away from any kind of anti-oxidant, whether or not one is taking OSC.

My understanding of ALS tells me that it's just the immune system mistakenly over-producing reactive oxygen species (ROS) in certain areas of the spinal cord and the brain. Taking anti-oxidants causes the immune system to increase its production of ROS in those areas, thereby aggravating the problem. Taking a strong anti-oxidant, by contrast, should trick the immune system into decreasing its production of ROS.

I believe this (creating ROS) is what sodium chlorite (a very strong oxidant) does to the immune system, nothing really special that would require years of research to figure out. I suspect that the current Neuraltus-originated theory (the one that involves the production of TauCl in combating inflammation) is erroneous at best and deceptive at worst. I suspect that other common oxidants such as hydrogen peroxide or sodium chlorate may be equally effective at accomplishing the same thing. However, there is no money in those things. So it is up to those PALS that have the means to conduct their own experiments to do so.

PALS can try, for example, to undergo hyperbaric oxygen therapy for a while to see if it helps. Or they can try to get their doctors to approve hydrogen peroxide therapy. There are ways to experiment with potential therapeutics that are not very risky because they are performed by experienced technicians. They must conduct their own experiments because most ALS researchers cannot be trusted, in my opinion. They have too much invested in this.

Louis
RL Schafferr
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:36:07 PM

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Been saying antix. don't help in ALS for years.
ENV
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 6:48:58 PM

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Nemesis wrote:

The varying results are strange bordering to baffling. Is there a need to review the source of the chlorite solution and the mixing + dosing + supplementation strategies used by non-responders? [think]


That's a primary problem in DIYs is the protocol adherence. Too much variation destroys the integrity of the data as evidence.

-- Le Meilleur Vin Avec Les Meilleurs Amis --

The comment above is my personal opinion. I do not represent ALS-TDI
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